Oct 162012

My brother wishes to apply for Italian dual citizenship. He lives out west, so he would apply through the San Francisco consulate. Their web site says this:

As of 10 October 2012, in accordance with memoranda issued by the Ministero degli Affari Esteri (MAE), this Consulate will no longer refer to the files of other Consulates or Comuni (municipalities) in Italy. Therefore, if you are applying after a family member has already received recognition of citizenship by descent from the same ancestor, you will be required to present all family documents from scratch, either in original from the relevant U.S. agencies, or as copie conforme (authenticated photocopies) issued by the Consulate or Comune which recognized your family member’s citizenship. The latter method is generally recommended and faster, but incurs a fee.

Today I emailed the Detroit consulate to ask what the procedure would be for me to obtain a cope confirme of my application materials for him to use in San Francisco. The birth certificates for my grandfather and mother were the only ones our family had. To get new copies would require a court order because NY State will not release a birth certificate to anyone but the person named or their parents.

17 Oct 2012
Response from the consulate: Your brother must contact our Consulate in San Francisco, we have new regulations.

Feb 202012

Today I emailed the Italian Consulate in Detroit asking, (1) What the process is for making an appointment? and (2) How far out appointments are being scheduled? We'll see what they say.

Here are some links to relevant sites:

Italian Consulate in Detroit

Italian Consulate in Detroit's Citizenship page

Citizenship Criteria from the Italian Interior Minister

Citizenship Information from the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The consulate is located in the Buhl Building, 535 Griswold, Detroit, Michigan, Telephone: (313) 963-8560.

Update 20 Feb 2012

Quick response back telling me that I could have an appointment on March 19 or March 29. That was too close for me since I needed to get translations and I still need to get my grandparents' marriage certificate. But it was cool to know that they had appointments so close out.

I also found an interesting suggestion about going to the consulate even if you think you might have things to amend:

I tend to prefer waiting for the consulate's guidance in such matters, at least before investing too much effort and expense. The consular officer is the person who needs to be satisfied, so his/her views are controlling. Also, if you have to go back to try to re-amend a record it's at least embarrassing.

I also have a hypothesis that some officers want applicants to overcome at least one obstacle — that there's sort of an informal "obstacle quota." So if you're going to have to jump through a hoop or two anyway, why take the easiest hoops off the table before your first appointment? That's just a hypothesis about human nature, though.

Update 21 Feb 2012

Both the consulate and posts online confirm that there is no need to bring my children to the consulate appointment. The consulate did say to bring their passports however. 

Now I'm just waiting to hear if my translator can get the translations finished before 19 March. If so, I will try to take the 19 March appointment, assuming it's still open.

Update 21 Feb 2012

My translator said that she could get the translations to me between the 10th and 15th of March. So I emailed the consulate asking if they still had the 19 March 2012 at 11am appointment slot open. If they do, I'm taking it.

Feb 162012

Once I get my grandparents' marriage certificate, I will need to get documents translated into Italian. In an earlier post, I listed approved translators and the estimated cost. Today I'm checking out the Italian Citizenship Message Board to confirm what does and does not need to be translated.

This page has a number of things that others needed to have translated: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/what-did-you-need-to-have-translated-t1402.html

Basically, it's variable. Everything from all documents to no documents. Summarizing, at a minimum all BC, MC, and DC in the direct line, including mine and my children's, need to be translated. It might be easiest just to have everything translated I suppose.

I emailed someone who went through Detroit to see what they needed to have translated for their application. This is their response:

My initial appointment was at the end of August 2011. I went in with all my direct line documents translated and apostilled. My line is GGF GF F Me, so I had a lot of documents. Needless to say all of documents were from NY and NJ. I was given back my BC MC and my children's BCs to have authenticated. All the other documents were accepted as is. The DC were not even looked at nor retained by the consulate. I probably did not need them. I had the documents authenticated and returned them in mid November. Two months later I had my acceptance letter. I also just received my BC from my commune.

I can only say good things about my experience in Detroit, they are very reasonable and understanding.

I followed up by asking what forms this person had apostilled and translated. They said they only did that for their direct line:

By direct line I mean the male descendants in my case. It would be the same for you. Do not Apostille or translate your mother or GM or GGM. You will need spouse only if she is applying with you ( married prior to 1983). You will need minor children if that applies.

So for me, that means getting the following translated:

– GGF marriage certificate
– GGF death certificate
– GF birth certificate
– GF marriage certificate
– GF death certificate
– F birth certificate
– F marriage certificate
– my birth certificate
– my marriage certificate
– my children's birth certificates

So at the cost of $50 per document, that means about $500 or so plus shipping.

But here's another response that I got regarding translations (for Detroit):

Detroit does have a list of translators but they do not require you to use it. I think the same holds true for the other consulates that post lists of translators. If you use one of the "required" translators you will be less likely to have an issue with them rejecting your translations. If you do your own translations you run the risk of rejection and posibly more delays. I translated my documents with the help of the templates here and my limited knowledge of Italian. They were accepted for authentication by NY and Newark.

Dec 192011

I will be applying for dual citizenship through the Detroit consulate. I heard that I needed to get documents validated by the consulate governing the state that issued the documents. That means sending the NY docs to the NYC consulate and the Pennsylvania docs to the Philadelphia consulate.

I found some information about this on http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/

I'm applying through Boston, and I am currently waiting for translation validations from CA, NJ, and NY. I emailed the NY consulate asking how to obtain a validation from their consulate and here's the response I received:

"Dear Sir:

In reference to your request to have your certificates issued in New York  State validated by this Consulate, in order to apply for Italian citizenship, you  might proceed  according to one of the following options :

1) come in at our Office prior scheduling an appointment, providing:
– original Long Form certificate legalized with Apostille, translation in Italian and a set of copies; (should you choose to have a representative to come in, please provide a Power of Attorney specifying the purpose of your request and attach a copy of your passport). On that day, you will be required to pay the legalization fees.

2) send by mail:
– your statement indicating the purpose of your request;
– original Long Form certificate legalized with Apostille and translation in Italian and a set of copies;
– a copy of your passport;
– a credit card number to charge the fees due for legalization (American Express not accepted);
– a pre-paid envelope to return the documentation to you;
– the attached form filled out and signed by you in front of a Notary Public.

Anna Amoroso 
Citizenship Office
Consulate General of Italy
New York


I, the undersigned…………………………………………………………………………

Born on………………………………………….in…………………………………………..



holder I.D. no……………………………………….

issued by……………………………………………….

do hereby declare that I assume all responsibility for the mailing of my original documents.

I understand that the Consulate General of Italy in New York is NOT responsible for the loss or damage of my documents in transit.

I therefore wish for my documents to be mailed back to me via the pre-stamped envelope that I have provided including a photocopy.






I followed these instructions (even included a copy of this email with notes directing the reader to the corresponding tab for each required document I enclosed). As you can see you must send in the original doc, and hold NY harmless for its loss. That's ominous, but I did it anyway.

I didn't want to send in my credit card number without knowing the fees, but they have not responded to my follow up email on this matter. FWIW, both SF and NJ quote a fee of $8.50 per original document page. They accepted money orders for the validation. 

I didn't know about the other requirements described above so I stapled the translation pages together and just clipped them to the original. Hope that doesn't hurt me. 

BTW, the SF consulate received my docs last Thursday, and I saw via USPS tracking that they have mailed my docs back to me already! That's a 2 day turnaround. NJ said they would turn it around in a day or so too. Don't know about NY. I only submitted one doc to them.

Oct 302011

I will need to get several US documents translated into Italian (various birth, marriage, and death certificates). Even though I am going through the Detroit consulate, I will need to get several of my NY documents authenticated by the NY consulate. Detroit does not seem to have a list of approved translators, but NY does. So I think I should pick a translator from their list. I'll be emailing them to get a sense of the cost for their services. I've heard up to $50 per document, though some have noted prices half that. Fingers crossed.

Looking at the Italian Citizenship Message Board, I see that some consulates require, e.g., "to have the translator certify the accuracy of the translations and to get the translator's certification notarized and apostilled" … "it was necessary for the translator to be a licensed translator, who could certify the translation (which certification would then be notarized and apostilled)" … "Documents on the line of descent originating in states outside of the jurisdiction of the L.A. consulate had to be authenticated by the consulate with jurisdiction over GA and P.R. I hired a wonderful translator in Miami who set-up the appointment with the Miami consulate and took all the docs to be authenticated." 

From the NY consulate : http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/NR/exeres/5B0358BE-3263-4F8E-B3A2-18C4B37B82E6,frameless.htm?NRMODE=Published


Aggiornato/Updated: 2011/03/16 info.newyork@esteri.it

1 Penn Plaza, Suite 2016
New York, NY 10119
Tel.: (917) 291 4568
Fax: (212) 736 2159
mail: bnvloredana@gmail.com

CERESA Carlo e Alberta
935 White Plains Road – Suite 206
Trumbull, CT 06611
Tel. 203 880-9668
Fax 203 880-9830
e-mail: ital_ct@yahoo.com

COCCIA Rahoy Gabriella
Jamaica Estates, Queens, NY
Tel.: (718) 523-6864
E-mail: gabrie4@verizon.net

244 Fifth Avenue, Suite G259
New York, NY 10001
Tel.: 917 837-9943
E-mail: glcroce@gmail.com

ATA Certified Eng>Ita
Manhattan, NYC
Tel.: (212) 366-1346
E-mail: mgaletta@earthlink.net
Professional Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mariagaletta

261 West 35th Street
New York, NY 10001-1902
Tel. 877-464.3638 (toll free)
212-255-8400 x124
FAX: 212-255-8409
rhorowitz@genevaworldwide.com bob@genevaworldwide.com

Prof. Rosaria TENACE, Certified Interpreter -Translator
Tel.: 860 257-4227
Fax: 860 760-6063 (24/7)
e-mail: RTenace@cox.net

LAWYERS’ & MERCHANTS’ Translation Bureau, Inc./RWS Group
11 Broadway, Room 466
New York, NY 10004
Tel.: (212) 344-2930
Fax: (212) 422-6877
Email: lmtb@rws.com

300 Glen Street – Suite 2
Glen Cove, NY 11542
Tel. 516 656-5888
Fax: 516 656 5999
E-mail: pmarinozzi@aol.com

400 3rd Avenue Apt. 14A
New York, NY 10016
Tel. 212 – 684 2410
Fax: 212 – 683 2923
E-mail: italicusinc@earthlink.net

RUSSO Fiorentina
Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Italian
St. John’s University
Tel. (516) 850-7939
E-mail: florentina.russo@gmail.com

15 Parkway Drive
Port Chester, NY 10573
Tel/Fax: (914) 939-5827
E-mail: Starmaq@aol.com Quartero4132@gmail.com
Website: http://italytranslation.com

ATA Certified Eng>Ita
Tel/Fax: 860 561-4704
Cell: 860 670-8077

Rosanna M. Giammanco Frongia, Ph.D.
637 Tompkins Avenue, upstairs
Staten Island, New York 10305
Tel. (718) 727-7728
Cell (718) 619-2637
Fax (718) 727-0770 e-mail: RosannaGiammanco@earthlink.net 

Update 31 Oct 2011

Definitely glad I emailed everyone. Some responses were wonderfully detailed and helpful. One refused to respond to anything over email, demanding that I telephone. Another said they wouldn't even give a ballpark until they saw the documents. Gives you a quick glance at how these folks might be to deal with in the coming month.

I also learned that the translation part is definitely NOT a bottleneck. Estimates ranges from 3 days to 2 weeks.

Oct 252011

I originally emailed the Italian Consulate in Detroit a couple of weeks ago. Today I got a response. They sent me two information packets:

To be of Not to Be An Italian Citizen? That is the Question

Determination of Italian Citizenship (Jure sanguinis)

The one new piece of information is that all of my documentation, if issued in other States, must be presented to this office, duly certified by the Consulate in the jurisdiction where the certificates were issued. It notes: Vital statistics certificates (birth, marriage, death, etc.) that occurred in the United States of America in relation to Italian citizens must be registered at the City Halls in Italy. The registration will be processed by the Consular Offices. In order to do so the certificates must be submitted to the Consular Office that has jurisdiction over the State in which the events occurred, in certified copies issued by the competent County Clerk Office and legalized with the “Apostille”. Simple photocopies or certified copies issued by the local registrar are not valid for registration in Italy.